The Wider View

Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:58 pm

we haven't found our level...we are actually above it as the club is being subsidised massively and in any other business could be seen to be unviable ...in fact league status is the least of our worries ...insolvency far overshadows relegation.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby black morse » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:07 pm

mrpotatohead wrote:we haven't found our level...we are actually above it as the club is being subsidised massively and in any other business could be seen to be unviable ...in fact league status is the least of our worries ...insolvency far overshadows relegation.


You've got to be right with this one Mr P We all try to forget the sword that is hanging over us in the wild hope that a saviour is going to come along. It's human nature to keep hoping but in all truth it seems very unlikely. So we'll keep on hoping for salvation!
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TBH I would guess there wont be many clubs

Postby Arnside Red » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:26 pm

who are not subsidised, most to a greater degree than Morecambe so are we actually punching above our weight......only if attendances are the decisive factor.....
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Re: TBH I would guess there wont be many clubs

Postby black morse » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:16 pm

[quote="Arnside Red"]who are not subsidised, most to a greater degree than Morecambe so are we actually punching above our weight......only if attendances are the decisive factor.....[/quote

We are punching above our weight taking into account gates AND how little we are subsidised by :!:
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Re: The Wider View

Postby erics seafood » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:06 am

Another set of entertaining posts ...cheers.
As for avoiding a question....again I refer you to my original post. No bragging of a fantastic career...otherwise I'd be driving a Porsche.
If I knew you, the club's management or directorship, I'm sure I'd give the same observations. Its being professional. Career fantastic....no. Career and made a good living being dispassionate and experiencing ups n downs....yep indeedeedoodee. The style of play largely depends on necessity of position, resources and opposition. New methods are always welcome otherwise you fall behind. The trick is identifying key problems and working on the ones you can effect and affect.
Apologies if anyone feels patronized...AGAIN I'm being analytical. If i/we purely based opinion on feeling, our team would be doomed. One reply to a direct point...why am I bothered? Shouldn't we all be bothered and offer different points of view? Maybe I have some knowledge...as some of you obviously do. If you don't like a different view that's worrying. I value your opinions otherwise I wouldn't give them a second thought. Anyway, I enjoyed arranging the bad whether at Accy so I could irritate Mr Coleman. Stay dry and don't lose your passion.. ..its who you are. Feeling patronized ?...it was a compliment! Now I'm off to march on Poland.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:50 am

Well I like him :lol:
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Re: TBH I would guess there wont be many clubs

Postby Ntini » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:24 pm

black morse wrote:
Arnside Red wrote:who are not subsidised, most to a greater degree than Morecambe so are we actually punching above our weight......only if attendances are the decisive factor.....


We are punching above our weight taking into account gates AND how little we are subsidised by :!:

Our average attendance for last season was 1,703. In 1994 when Wigan dropped into the fourth tier, their average attendance was 1,897. They arguably have a bigger catchment area, yet with a decent bit of cash injected they made it to the Premier League where they were pulling average attendances of between 18-20k. Again I ask are they punching above their weight (and have been since 1994)?

In 2010/11 Lincoln were relegated from L2 with average gates of 3,513 (we had 2,648 that year). This season, they're flying high at the top of L2 with an average so far of 8,617. In 2013/14 Fleetwood averaged 2,819 in L2, got promoted and were pulling in over 3,500 and now average 3,120 so far this season mid-table in L1. In 2013/14, Burton averaged 2,720 in L2, last season averaged 5,228 and this season 4,745 near the bottom of Championship. You get the picture...

A bit of cash, play some nice football, get promoted and people come through the doors to watch. Play scrappy football at the wrong end of the table season after season and people get bored of it. It doesn't mean you're punching above your weight, it's just the natural flow of attendances following what's happening on the pitch.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:01 pm

Even with the feelgood factor of a new stadium and being new in the league...we could not get 5he neccessary 2500 average to break even. ...it'll never happen.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Christies Child » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:39 pm

mrpotatohead wrote:Even with the feelgood factor of a new stadium and being new in the league...we could not get 5he neccessary 2500 average to break even. ...it'll never happen.


As much as it hurts..... :cry: ;) ....I have to agree with Spud.

Quite simply Morecambe is not a footballing town unlike Barrow who if they ever get back into the FL will get gates of well over 2500.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ispyshrimp » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:09 pm

Sorry Cc, what u mean not football town, people would come out for very big games cup games versus higher league opposition and as it's been said previously in numerous occasions on here we did have bigger gates than we currently have.
More the point of issues discussed previously about how separated supporters feel from the club is part of the reason gates are low not helped by results.
We have a good catchment area just that we need to tempt people back to follow our team.
Alot of years of neglecting supporters will take alot of time to over turn to get it any where near what attendances were like. People who run the club need to interact t more with us who support and the trust should be given more of a say then we may get somewhere.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:21 pm

That's it then.....all we need to do Is play a big cup game every week, simple.

The reality is, even if we played "attractive football" , won every week for the next 3 months , got in the playoffs and lost at Wembley, we would still only attract around 15-1800 fans the following season and we'd be losing money every week.

In 1974 we won a cup at Wembley, our first game at Christie park after this major triumph....attendance of less than 350 fans.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ispyshrimp » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:33 pm

My point was merely to say we could get bigger gates not be a smart arse.
Cc point was barrow would get 2500 if they were promoted on population of 56k people, 69k if you take into account surrounding area

Morecambe/heysham has around 51k people with Lancaster 46k
According to last census report 2011, 138k people were living in La1 to La7 postcodes, that's the reason I say we could attract bigger gates than we currently do.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:37 pm

History doesn't back you up on that one though......does It?
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ispyshrimp » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:30 pm

Not really, few years ago think we averaged 2150 for season which is really what we should aim for again but no where near
Point being barrow is no bigger football town than we are so why would they get 2500
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:11 pm

2150 is an aspiration that is well short of our 2500 "break even" figure anyway, it's pretty much unachievable, you could argue that the club is trading illegally as collectively the board all know it's a non viable business,
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Christies Child » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:32 pm

Ispyshrimp wrote:Not really, few years ago think we averaged 2150 for season which is really what we should aim for again but no where near
Point being barrow is no bigger football town than we are so why would they get 2500


Barrow is fortunate to have a growing work base as well as the shipyards resulting in the workers having considerably more money in their pockets to spend on entertainment etc. You only have to look at the shopping centre to see the likes of Debenham, marks and Spencers and larger privately owned furniture stores to realise that Barrow is awash with money. Although there are areas of social need, there is also some very expensive housing. Barrow has a FL history and as and when they achieve Efl status once again, it has a catchment area that ihasa growing industrial base and that will lead to FL gates that we will never achieve on a regular basis.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:01 am

Barrow also has a population twice the size of Morecambe and no other teams nearby , no comparison .
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Wild Bill » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:49 am

mrpotatohead wrote:Even with the feelgood factor of a new stadium and being new in the league...we could not get 5he neccessary 2500 average to break even. ...it'll never happen.


Disagree Spud. In our final couple of games at CP we sold out (around 5000 tickets). Our first game against Conventry we had 4000 on a Tuesday night in early August (holiday season). Second match against Doncaster we had about 3500, then we played Burnley (also on a Tuesday) we got 5000. This meant that (albeit for a short period of a few months) an average of nearly 4000 fans were paying through the gate on a regular basis.

Sadly, these fans fizzled away due to a very disappointing three sides of the ground and an even poorer team on the pitch. We could have seized that opportunity like other clubs did with a successful ground move or other catalyst to build a bigger fanbase. What's been happening since though has had an opposite effect.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:58 am

You have picked out half a dozen games,against big clubs, its naive to think that can reflect our potential, why not look in potted shrimps at our club history , there is no sustained period of gates over a thousand,let alone 2000, this isnt about being right, its about being realistic, the fact is Jims management has kept us in the league, against the odds, for a long time, and the club has always lost money , we may cease to exist soon unless a very benevolent person comes and rescues the club at great personal expense.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Shrimpman » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:01 am

Moose wrote:Would have been a great post... maybe three years ago... sorry pal, I get your enthusiasm, but I am one of the 1000 or so that has lost it. I am not a keyboard warrior, just hate crap football and bizarre tactics/team selection. Still, suppose it's still my fault and back on my shoulders for not being positive and feeling greatfull for what we have. We need big changes and they aren't and haven't happened, whilst they don't happen, I won't be coming back. Once again, I take no delight in having a go, but the lack of changes on and off the pitch has put so many people off bothering.


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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ispyshrimp » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:06 am

Barrow doesn't have a population twice size of morecambe and heysham unless it's had a massive boost of population.
Taking into account Lancaster as well doubles the population.
So morecambe could and should be a footballing town if your saying barrow is
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Gone_Shrimping » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:15 am

Ispyshrimp wrote:Barrow doesn't have a population twice size of morecambe and heysham unless it's had a massive boost of population.
Taking into account Lancaster as well doubles the population.
So morecambe could and should be a footballing town if your saying barrow is



Barrow is more of a rugby league town than football.

Fleetwood is hardly a footballing town and has a much smaller population than Morecambe and most of them are Lasher fans.

AFC Fylde is in a village yet their crowds are similar to ours.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:07 am

Fylde and Fleetwood both benefit from the shift of disgruntled blackpool fans , fylde has actually got a good catchment area including Lytham ,andsell ,kirkham ,wesham , and st annes.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ntini » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:22 pm

mrpotatohead wrote:You have picked out half a dozen games,against big clubs, its naive to think that can reflect our potential, why not look in potted shrimps at our club history , there is no sustained period of gates over a thousand,let alone 2000, this isnt about being right, its about being realistic

    2000/01 - 1,243 19th
    2001/02 - 1,289 6th
    2002/03 - 1,462 2nd
    2003/04 - 1,781 7th
    2004/05 - 1,751 7th
    2005/06 - 1,780 5th
    2006/07 - 1,598 3rd (promoted)

    2007/08 - 2,677 11th
    2008/09 - 2,153 11th
    2009/10 - 2,262 4th
    2010/11 - 2,648 21st
    2011/12 - 2,141 15th
    2012/13 - 1,954 16th
    2013/14 - 1,936 18th
    2014/15 - 1,998 11th
    2015/16 - 1,572 21st
    2016/17 - 1,703 18th

We got over 2,000 for 5 seasons running in the FL, and all of the last 17 seasons have been over 1,000, so your post isn't really backed up by fact.
Being realistic is saying we need an average gate of 2500 for a full season and we've done it for 2 out of our 10 full seasons in the FL. It is achievable, it's just not been done for the many reasons others have stated here and elsewhere on SVs.

mrpotatohead wrote:the fact is Jims management has kept us in the league, against the odds, for a long time, and the club has always lost money , we may cease to exist soon unless a very benevolent person comes and rescues the club at great personal expense.

Absolutely agree on that one, Jim & Ken have kept us up despite all the things that have happened off the pitch. We do need some investment, but that goes for pretty much every other club in the FL.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Christies Child » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:58 pm

Do those figures include home Cup Games v higher opposition :?:

If they DO NOT then fair enough.

But if they do include cup games then a far better and more meaningful way would be to look only at the EFL gates surely.... :?: :?: :?: :?:

After all it's the EFL gates that we need to increase on a regular basis. Cup games v so called higher opposition do not give a true reflection of our true fan base in my opinion.
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