The Wider View

The Wider View

Postby erics seafood » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:58 am

I've read with interest recent posts regarding performances, as well as a few frustrated and obviously devisive comments on the management team.

It's excellent that fans care and comment passionately about the Club and the Team and even the staff. Indeed, everyone has the right to express an opinion. Sadly, I cringe at some of the criticisms levelled against Messrs Bentley and McKenna.

I've had the privilege to play and coach sport professionally. It doesn't mean I know every aspect of playing or management, but I do have the luxury of 36 years of success, hard graft and insight into playing, coaching, managing, administration and financing a club.

I observe that making direct and even sarcastic remarks about the management and set-up, without considering ownership, zero funds, player ability, size of squad and the size of this great club, shows ignorance of the highest order.

1) Morecambe is probably the smallest club in the EFL and is without doubt batting above its potential.
2) Since entering the League, Morecambe have been a bookies favourite for relegation EVERY season.
3) Morecambe have never been in a position to buy players without having to sell.
4) Morecambe's coaches spot and develop talent to supplement no funds.
5) Morecambe then has to sell any sizeable talent to keep the club afloat.
6) Morecambe's management have gone without pay several times....Would you work and take abuse for nothing?
7) Morcambe's limited squad requires rotation and risk to fulfill fixtures but not damage players. It means a manager can rarely field the best on paper 11.
8) Morecambe have no fit grass facilities that can safely prepare a team.
9) Morecambe's management and support staff have a vast amount of playing, coaching, management and analysis experience and have built an EFL team based on this wealth of knowledge and experience and NO purchasing power. The survival of the team is due to its management, preparation and recovery. All directly attributable to the guys in the managers coats and their selected staff.
10) I am aware that bigger and wealthier clubs have approached our management but fortunately they have declined bigger roles, more money, more prospects and security for the sake of and the dreams of this wonderful club. Would you do that...No chance.

Despite my affection for the club, I am qualified to say; please be passionate, critical and even frustrated.
BUT, for the one or two hyper critical and sarcastic posters, think twice about the devisive and narrow bile that is fired at our management. Bentley out?.... Be careful what you wish for. You only know what you had when it's gone. I repeat, this club is batting above its realistic potential....And it's not down to you.

Well done to the players, fans, staff, helpers AND managers for the comeback. After a couple of players not doing their jobs, we were 0-2 down. It was poor. That largely rests with the men in red. Changes, adapting and finding our balls, resulted in a 4-3 win. A more entertaining adventure than many Premier League games. Ask yourself, where else would you really have preferred to be last night. If it wasn't being at The Globe and fighting to be in the EFL despite all odds whilst understanding the club's limitations, you need to get on board.
Merry Christmas.x
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Re: The Wider View

Postby ChrisC » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:30 am

Excellent post. Well said!
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ispyshrimp » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:55 am

I would agree with the majority of that.

I think sometimes we do lose sight that we are a club which compared to others around us apart from Stanley are seen as being out of our depth but continue to defy odds yearly

I think from a personal level the so called hoof ball frustrates majority of fans as we know how well we can play when playing the ball along the floor.

Financially I think we will always struggle because we have a stadium which I would presume takes alot of money to run compared to its income, and compared to Stanley who must be the nearest to ourselves club size.

One thing that no one can take away from us is our passion for our club, I think the difference this year compared to previous seasons of late is we haven't picked up alot of points at the start of the season so majority of us are anxious about results and wanting to be secure.
It will probably be a long second half of the season but be easier with a few wins in next few games to give us a lift up the table.

What happened 2nd half of game last night was probably one of the best 2nd half's seen at the globe and also shows we can score, so need to take that into Mondays game and hope for another 3 pts.

From my point of view have alot of time for Jim and team and their morecambe through and through, but long balls up field isn't our best tactic

Hope results today go our way
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Posh » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:05 am

A really interesting post and I agree with virtually everything you say.

However, you could have said it so much better. Your post falls into the same trap that so many do when making posts like this, by immediately making it a case of us and them.

Firstly, your post is anonymous, which to be fair, almost all posters are. Would you have posted this on Facebook and stood behind your own name?

Secondly, it treats all fans as one and is patronising.

“Would you do that. No chance!” How do you know? I’ve had better job offers and turned them down for a whole host of reasons. That’s not to undermine how brilliant Jim and Kenny’s loyalty to us is but why turn it against us.

“I repeat this club is battling above its realistic potential. And it’s not down to you.” No it isn’t but if we’re all in this together then why deride the fans’ part? Fans who paint the ground, set up a Trust, raise money, pay hundreds of thousands / millions over the years in gate money, food, drink and merchandise, as well as support the club in other ways.

“You need to get on board”. Thanks. I already am. However, this divisive ‘we know better attitude’ that got us a ground that wasn’t designed for its fans and has promised and failed to deliver repeatedly is what has seen us start at the Globe with 2,500 fans and now drop to 1,000 last night.

Like I said, I agree with what you said. Jim and Kenny have done a great job with limited resources.

The internet has given a voice to everyone with a phone or a computer to do and say what they like. Inevitably that’s shone a light on the fact that some people are aggressive, abusive, irrational and illogical or sometimes simply hold different views. However, tarring is all with the same brush does you no credit either and simply illustrates the chasm that’s opened up between ‘officials’ and fans, or owners and customers. At Accy, Andy Holt’s first task was to understand his customers and it has paid huge dividends. A bit of that might help. Also some acknowledgment that points 1 to 8 could have been improved under better ownership and stewardship of the club would help your case too. If instead of losing over 1,000 fans we’d gained 1,000 by looking after our customer base would we be having this debate now?

Good points, but a minority of abusive fans are part of the problem. Not all fans are the problem.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby fulwoodshrimp » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:17 am

Some valid points in Eric's post but as passionate fans we are entitled to our say on our club. Jim has many fine qualities and is a man of huge integrity and loyalty but if we see elements of his management that concern us we are entitled to say so. The obsession with hoof ball and erratic team selections are for me the main complaints. Last night's second half performance was magnificent and was based on getting the ball out wide and getting behind the Yeovil defence not on hoof ball. The manager has avoided giving Lang a start in the side and we fans have been calling out for weeks for this. Last night he got a full game and showed what Wigan see in him. He now has to be given a decent run in the team. I note Eric's post was his first one. I look forward to reading more in the forthcoming months!
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Keith » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:29 am

An excellent first post, I look forward to more contributions. :D
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Re: The Wider View

Postby bill ding » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:24 am

“BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR,YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE UNTIL ITS GONE , this sentence stands out in Eric’s post. You could probably replace jim with an unemployed lower league manager who just wanted a job but you couldn’t possibly get the passion or commitment we have at the moment.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Westgate Wanderer » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:06 am

Looks like a big list of excuses to me! We all know we are a small club but we don't help ourselves by playing dire dull football with the sole intention of trying not to lose! That affects crowds which in turn affects revenues. Last night was70 minutes of garbage and then 26 minutes of total chaos! Two teams that have absolutely no idea on defending! So glad we won but the cracks haven't even been papered over.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby John L » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:51 am

Posh wrote:A really interesting post and I agree with virtually everything you say.

However, you could have said it so much better. Your post falls into the same trap that so many do when making posts like this, by immediately making it a case of us and them.

Firstly, your post is anonymous, which to be fair, almost all posters are. Would you have posted this on Facebook and stood behind your own name?

Secondly, it treats all fans as one and is patronising.

“Would you do that. No chance!” How do you know? I’ve had better job offers and turned them down for a whole host of reasons. That’s not to undermine how brilliant Jim and Kenny’s loyalty to us is but why turn it against us.

“I repeat this club is battling above its realistic potential. And it’s not down to you.” No it isn’t but if we’re all in this together then why deride the fans’ part? Fans who paint the ground, set up a Trust, raise money, pay hundreds of thousands / millions over the years in gate money, food, drink and merchandise, as well as support the club in other ways.

“You need to get on board”. Thanks. I already am. However, this divisive ‘we know better attitude’ that got us a ground that wasn’t designed for its fans and has promised and failed to deliver repeatedly is what has seen us start at the Globe with 2,500 fans and now drop to 1,000 last night.

Like I said, I agree with what you said. Jim and Kenny have done a great job with limited resources.

The internet has given a voice to everyone with a phone or a computer to do and say what they like. Inevitably that’s shone a light on the fact that some people are aggressive, abusive, irrational and illogical or sometimes simply hold different views. However, tarring is all with the same brush does you no credit either and simply illustrates the chasm that’s opened up between ‘officials’ and fans, or owners and customers. At Accy, Andy Holt’s first task was to understand his customers and it has paid huge dividends. A bit of that might help. Also some acknowledgment that points 1 to 8 could have been improved under better ownership and stewardship of the club would help your case too. If instead of losing over 1,000 fans we’d gained 1,000 by looking after our customer base would we be having this debate now?

Good points, but a minority of abusive fans are part of the problem. Not all fans are the problem.


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Re: The Wider View

Postby erics seafood » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:13 pm

Fabulous set of responses from people that care. My offering was designed to prod a couple of obviously bitter folk to check out their knowledge before being keyboard warriors. If you read the post, it encourages critique but warns of personal attacks.
As for anonymity, I wouldn't post this on Facebook as allowing non Shrimps friends to see that there's a minority of devisive peeps at the Globe wouldn't be helpful. I enjoy facebook but it can be dangerous. I'm happy to stand with my photo on a billboard but the post was analytical from a sporting perspective and highlights that critique is necessary but personal comments about the management is beneath what you guys stand for. Plus, my frightening mug and frame tends to worry most folk...ha ha ha.
It's a shame that a few recent posts seem to have a destructive agenda and don't reflect the type of concern that you guys have expressed today. I'm glad you have the observations about the performances. Its what being a true fan is about. A Wider View was an attempt to make a couple of lovely sausages Get On Board with YOUR type of passion. Nice replies folks. Safe weekend.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby sandgrown » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:59 pm

it's easier to praise the management and get positive responses after a fantastic comeback.

but I was just wondering why Eric didn't post this after the Notts. County debacle ?
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Re: The Wider View

Postby erics seafood » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:20 pm

Cheers...... the reason I posted after the Yeovil game is because whilst understanding criticism and passion for the team/club, I unfortunately overheard then read one or two recent postings on this site. Therefore I registered only last night. This happened during and after the Yeovil game. If you read my original post, it offers a view of the reality of sports clubs and Morecambes situation as a club in League 2. As i said, I base my concerns on many years of playing, managing, coaching and administering in professional sport. It wasn't a hero worship, just a realistic appraisal of club and team and my distaste for a couple of keyboard warriors who don't have the passion and articulate ability of you and I. I repeat.. ..critique is part and parcel of sport and supporters right. So...you must continue your voices but beware that some folk are destructive, unrealistic and personal in their attacks. Ta
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Posh » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:35 am

erics seafood wrote:Cheers...... the reason I posted after the Yeovil game is because whilst understanding criticism and passion for the team/club, I unfortunately overheard then read one or two recent postings on this site. Therefore I registered only last night. This happened during and after the Yeovil game. If you read my original post, it offers a view of the reality of sports clubs and Morecambes situation as a club in League 2. As i said, I base my concerns on many years of playing, managing, coaching and administering in professional sport. It wasn't a hero worship, just a realistic appraisal of club and team and my distaste for a couple of keyboard warriors who don't have the passion and articulate ability of you and I. I repeat.. ..critique is part and parcel of sport and supporters right. So...you must continue your voices but beware that some folk are destructive, unrealistic and personal in their attacks. Ta


I get you don’t like a few keyboard warriors but why are you so bothered about them? Why not celebrate the hundreds of others who stick with the club through thick and thin, and hugely outnumber the destructive types? Be big about it and just ignore them.

Become part of the solution and not part of the problem. Stop cricising is all you’ve suggested and that’s largely all we’ve heard for the past seven years. Our heads are patted, facts we know told to us again and we’ve been told how grateful we should be. Yet the spiral of decline off the pitch continues that affects what happens on it. Yet you mention nothing of this at all.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby mrpotatohead » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:42 am

A very well meaning post ....well written , possibly TOO well written , I think by somebody close to the board or management in an attempt to explain the obvious to some of the club's more "limited" detractors , or the ones with agendas , it does however highlight the obvious for those who want to see positivity regarding our excellent manager.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby BerlinWaller » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:18 am

When you are referring to Keyboard Warriors, do you mean people who have paid £16+ to watch the match and then expressed their legitimate views on a forum?
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Keith » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:05 am

Posh wrote:I get you don’t like a few keyboard warriors but why are you so bothered about them? Why not celebrate the hundreds of others who stick with the club through thick and thin, and hugely outnumber the destructive types? Be big about it and just ignore them.

Become part of the solution and not part of the problem. Stop cricising is all you’ve suggested and that’s largely all we’ve heard for the past seven years. Our heads are patted, facts we know told to us again and we’ve been told how grateful we should be. Yet the spiral of decline off the pitch continues that affects what happens on it. Yet you mention nothing of this at all.


I welcome this kind of post and don't feel at all patronised. Not because the opinion is similar to mine, but because the forum is becoming quieter & quieter. People complained about the forum and moved to posting on Facebook, which now makes ShrimpsVoices look tame, as it is a real viper's pit there if we lose! Personally, I dislike Facebook for 'forum' style discussions because threads soon become completely lost. Good luck Marky No.1 resurrecting twelve month old conversations on there! So having thoughtful discussion on here is, in my opinion, to be welcomed, whatever the motivation.

Whatever the reasoning for posting, good, let's have more people doing so.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby seasonsinthesun » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:43 pm

Keith wrote:
Posh wrote:I get you don’t like a few keyboard warriors but why are you so bothered about them? Why not celebrate the hundreds of others who stick with the club through thick and thin, and hugely outnumber the destructive types? Be big about it and just ignore them.

Become part of the solution and not part of the problem. Stop cricising is all you’ve suggested and that’s largely all we’ve heard for the past seven years. Our heads are patted, facts we know told to us again and we’ve been told how grateful we should be. Yet the spiral of decline off the pitch continues that affects what happens on it. Yet you mention nothing of this at all.


I welcome this kind of post and don't feel at all patronised. Not because the opinion is similar to mine, but because the forum is becoming quieter & quieter. People complained about the forum and moved to posting on Facebook, which now makes ShrimpsVoices look tame, as it is a real viper's pit there if we lose! Personally, I dislike Facebook for 'forum' style discussions because threads soon become completely lost. Good luck Marky No.1 resurrecting twelve month old conversations on there! So having thoughtful discussion on here is, in my opinion, to be welcomed, whatever the motivation.

Whatever the reasoning for posting, good, let's have more people doing so.


I agree Keith. I much prefer Shrimpsvoices to Facebook because thoughtful discussion is far more interesting to me. Even when the Shrimps lose, I can still look forward to the discussion on what went wrong where fans may have different opinions and express them passionately, which I enjoy reading.
I also find the O/T subjects good as well; the recent one, David Morris titled, was very thought provoking.
The different comments expressed concerning Conservative and Labour held views was thought provoking, and I enjoy the fact that these topics can then challenge my own opinions, which can only be a good thing.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby erics seafood » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:08 pm

Hello folks. My original post needs a good read. It's not blindly passionate or praising the management. Again.. .it's an analytical view based on what I see and years of experience. If read dispassionately, it's actually a little advice. Make no mistake, I share your passion for something you love.
Interestingly, the destructive and personal contributors that are undermining the club and your passion have chosen not to join the discussion we've had. This type of person cannot debate like us. Beware the eminence grise guys. They offer no positive contribution to Shrimps survival....quite the opposite. Happy New Year and keep your bums on the seats. Hopefully the boys will upset Mr Coleman.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Christies Child » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:23 pm

Shrimps Voices has always been an open forum for fans of our great club to express their views and opinions on activities both on and off the field of play.

Those views have not and never will have the total agreement of every reader and fellow poster but that for me is the beauty of our forum.

I echo the comments of others in this thread and welcome the thought provoking comments of Eric.

:D
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Moose » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:34 pm

Would have been a great post... maybe three years ago... sorry pal, I get your enthusiasm, but I am one of the 1000 or so that has lost it. I am not a keyboard warrior, just hate crap football and bizarre tactics/team selection. Still, suppose it's still my fault and back on my shoulders for not being positive and feeling greatfull for what we have. We need big changes and they aren't and haven't happened, whilst they don't happen, I won't be coming back. Once again, I take no delight in having a go, but the lack of changes on and off the pitch has put so many people off bothering.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby George Dawes » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:25 pm

BerlinWaller wrote:When you are referring to Keyboard Warriors, do you mean people who have paid £16+ to watch the match and then expressed their legitimate views on a forum?
2nd this.

Just the same at every other football club.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby al1 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:08 pm

third this,every supporter is entitled to a view on here.we all know the problems the club has.we may not be as eloquent as eric but we are not thick.some of erics comments are condescending to say the least in fact could be called arrogant.perhaps someone who is close to jim and ken like others who come on here to defend the management who are too close and personal.the club is bigger than them.changes should have been made after the f a cup game against dagenham because since then everything has gone down hill in my humble opinion.the result on friday was brilliant but i put that down purely to the players on the pitch.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby BerlinWaller » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:21 pm

The guy has told us how to support our club, made claims about his fantastic career in the game without backing them up and dodged my question.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Joel Ninety » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:40 pm

If you're a paying supporter of course you're entitled to give your opinion, but others are also entitled to tell you how little you know or how wrong you may be if they have more knowledge and experience of the subject.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ntini » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:34 pm

erics seafood wrote:I observe that making direct and even sarcastic remarks about the management and set-up, without considering ownership, zero funds, player ability, size of squad and the size of this great club, shows ignorance of the highest order.

1) Morecambe is probably the smallest club in the EFL and is without doubt batting above its potential.

As much as I agree mostly with where you're coming from, the whole small club punching above its weight argument is a bit of a non-starter. If you don't have any money, you're always going to struggle, the purse strings tighten, the player budget is cut, the quality on the field diminishes, crowds dwindle, income drops and you go round in a big circle.

My honest opinion is that we've found our level - we can compete in L2, albeit towards the bottom, the same as other smaller clubs like Barnet, Accy etc. We'll have the odd good year, and a fair few bad ones. The only chance we have of progressing is with an input of cash to set a bigger ball rolling. Without it, we'll probably keep treading water and then have an unfortunate year and end up back in the conference.

Take a look at Wigan, who were non-league just like ourselves back in the 70s. The last time they were in L2 their average gates dropped to about 1,800 when they were struggling at the bottom of the table. With a fair bit of cash thrown in from Dave Whelan, they went all the way to the big time where they averaged about 18-19,000. A few relegations and they're hovering around the 9,000 mark at the top of L1. Their owner doesn't want to put cash in anymore and they're struggling for regular revenue.

I wouldn't say that Wigan are punching above their weight, yet they were exactly where we are now, struggling at the wrong end of L2 with a dwindling crowd. I'm not saying we'll have a similar fairytale, but the only chance we have of making any real progress is through investment. That isn't the management's fault, or the supporters, just a fact of the game as it now is.
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