The Wider View

Re: The Wider View

Postby Wild Bill » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:06 pm

Christies Child wrote:Do those figures include home Cup Games v higher opposition :?:

If they DO NOT then fair enough.

But if they do include cup games then a far better and more meaningful way would be to look only at the EFL gates surely.... :?: :?: :?: :?:

After all it's the EFL gates that we need to increase on a regular basis. Cup games v so called higher opposition do not give a true reflection of our true fan base in my opinion.


League attendances.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Wild Bill » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:23 pm

mrpotatohead wrote:You have picked out half a dozen games,against big clubs, its naive to think that can reflect our potential


Big clubs? Aldershot and Dagenham? Donny was hardly a big draw back in their L2 days either.

I am not saying we could realistically average 4000 anytime soon, just that in the not too dim and distant past we had a feel good factor, and for a few months at least, around 4000 locals were turning up regularly.

As Ntini pointed out, Burton have recently been averaging around 5000. I can remember seeing us play at their place not so long ago in the Conference in front of a similar crowd to what we currently average.

You will hate me saying this, but you sound a lot like your mate PMG, talking down the club on here. :roll:
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Re: The Wider View

Postby underbank » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:22 pm

Posh wrote:some acknowledgment that points 1 to 8 could have been improved under better ownership and stewardship of the club would help your case too. If instead of losing over 1,000 fans we’d gained 1,000 by looking after our customer base would we be having this debate now?


It has always been crystal clear that attendances alone would never support the club. Wasn't that the whole rationale of the move to the Globe and using the Sainsbury millions to bring in new revenue streams which would subsidise the football side of things to make it self sufficient? Well that worked well didn't it? Gym closed, 3d pitches bankrupt, Wild boar stakes anyone?, no ground sponsor, empty hospitality boxes, etc. I don't think the Board/management can blame the fans for that - they have to look at themselves as to why their grand plans failed so spectacularly. Let's not forget the Board included a statement in the 2013 accounts that they had a 3 year plan to make the club break even - well that worked well too didn't it - losses are bigger than ever. I think it's pretty poor form for people close to the club/management to criticise the fans to be honest given that the apparent distaste for the fans and the Board's misunderstanding of their customers has caused the gates to decline and other revenue generating activities to fail. As said above, even with another few hundred regulars, the club would still be loss making without the planned profits of the other income streams.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ispyshrimp » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:46 pm

Totally agree, how much did the club get from. Sainsbury's, im sure it's been said before.?

I think people can criticise Jim but this hasn't been helped by lack of finances allocated by the board due to lack of income for many reasons.

We also have to remember that the 3g pitches built at the back aren't owned by the club, club wastes money paying Lancaster college to play there for the academy, again lost revenue and extra expense, all this comes from the clubs money. Why was this run separately anyone know?

The board for ages haven't given a shit about fans despite what some say, apart from Rod, the communication for years has been poor compared to other clubs same level and lower than ourselves, how is it loan deals make Facebook hours before being released by the club, yet Stockport had on their exciting news coming shortly before Rhys Turner was unveiled.

Some have said its a lack of money in our area preventing some from coming supporting but at the same time some have chose to spend their £16-17 gate money on other things.

Anyone business which treats its customers poorly, retail to airlines and business like football clubs will fail or gets in self into trouble that's when normally they realise why or listen to what customer say, don't think ours has unfortunately which has contributed to low attendances.

Good football and better match day experience and fan involvement would help massively
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Re: The Wider View

Postby underbank » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:02 pm

Ispyshrimp wrote:Why was this run separately anyone know?


I believe it was spun off into a separate company so that a bank loan could be raised, secured on the land, building and pitches which were mortgageable as they are outside the scope of the Christie Trust. The loan being needed to fund some of the overspend on The Globe.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby MfcChris » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:37 pm

Ntini wrote:
    2007/08 - 2,677 11th
    2008/09 - 2,153 11th
    2009/10 - 2,262 4th
    2010/11 - 2,648 21st
    2011/12 - 2,141 15th

    2012/13 - 1,954 16th
    2013/14 - 1,936 18th
    2014/15 - 1,998 11th
    2015/16 - 1,572 21st
    2016/17 - 1,703 18th

So Jim being manager and playing bad football must be a contributing factor? Or the ground move?
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Re: The Wider View

Postby sandgrown » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:12 pm

[quote="Ispyshrimp"]Totally agree, how much did the club get from. Sainsbury's, im sure it's been said before.?


I believe it was around £10M, and the Globe cost £7.1M.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ispyshrimp » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:48 pm

So what did the remaining money go on, debts?

Otherwise couldn't this have been used for the 3g pitches and community block?
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Re: The Wider View

Postby KenH » Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:49 pm

Ispyshrimp wrote:So what did the remaining money go on, debts?

Otherwise couldn't this have been used for the 3g pitches and community block?


Havn't got the accounts to hand, but some went to repay PMG's loans made before the move as the club was loss making anyway, (£650k both 9/10 and 10/11 years so that £1.3million!) so some would have been spent to cover the losses.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Keith » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:13 pm

mrpotatohead wrote:History doesn't back you up on that one though......does It?


What were our attendances in the late 1950's & through the 1960's? I can't find them but I'm pretty sure they were massively more than they are now! So history does support the post.

There are many issues. Mistakes were made... we all know that. It is what can be done to rectify some of the mistakes? We MUST improve the match day experience, pre & post match. How many of us watched dire football for years, but enjoyed it because of the people who suffered alongside us??? Going for a pint before & after etc.

I've said before, why not have some MotM awards in the JB's bar? Or encourage everyone up to the Wright & Lord? (THAT was one of the dumbest mistakes right at the start, segregating the 'have's & have nots' & fostering a 'them & us' attitude).

Why not get some local bands playing after matches? A few quid or even a few pints would be enough and it would give people a reason to stay behind.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby John L » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:43 pm

Knocking a quid or as much as possible off the price of all pints would also help encourage more people to stay at the ground longer. You can go to the Trimpell or the York and pay just over 2 quid for a pint of ale. How about a bit of competition?
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Keith » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:48 am

John L wrote:Knocking a quid or as much as possible off the price of all pints would also help encourage more people to stay at the ground longer. You can go to the Trimpell or the York and pay just over 2 quid for a pint of ale. How about a bit of competition?


Completely agree! If we could keep people drinking after the game, even if simply to break even, it adds to the over-all 'match day experience'.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Ego Tripping » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:52 pm

Couple of issues here.

Firstly the costs the club incurs running the bar are higher on average than the ones you mention. Why?They are open 7 days a week whereas JB's bar only open sporadically. This will increase wastage costs and line cleaning will be high. Secondly the places you mention will have much better buying power due to the volumes they sell.

To mitigate some of this the club could quite easily simplify things to keep those costs down. Reducing the number of brands on the bar would be a simple and effective way. Having 3 lagers (Becks, Carlsberg & Carling) is silly plus 2 smooth ales in addition to the cask is also 1 too many. Reducing these down would reduce wastage and line cleaning costs plus would speed up service. The club could then pass on some of this to the fans. (before anyone asks yes I have offered to help but that offer has never been accepted).

Alternatively offer a discount for season ticket holders

Personally I don't find the prices too bad. For me the service is more of an issue. Its generally quite slow plus it drives me mad that they put a table right in front of the bar. I generally don't go back for a 2nd pint as I can't be bothered trying to get back to the bar through the crowd.

Finally I think the club needs to add a bit more value in the bar. Team announcements anyone? Exclusive interviews with Jim/Ken/players played on the screen?
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Re: The Wider View

Postby sandgrown » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:50 pm

Keith wrote:
mrpotatohead wrote:History doesn't back you up on that one though......does It?



(THAT was one of the dumbest mistakes right at the start, segregating the 'have's & have nots' & fostering a 'them & us' attitude).


for me this was the biggest mistake of all, I hate the 3 tier price seating in the main stand, it should be like it was at C.P. first come first served. ( S.T.H. keep theirs ).
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Re: The Wider View

Postby shrimperteer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:25 am

erics seafood wrote:I've read with interest recent posts regarding performances, as well as a few frustrated and obviously devisive comments on the management team.

It's excellent that fans care and comment passionately about the Club and the Team and even the staff. Indeed, everyone has the right to express an opinion. Sadly, I cringe at some of the criticisms levelled against Messrs Bentley and McKenna.

I've had the privilege to play and coach sport professionally. It doesn't mean I know every aspect of playing or management, but I do have the luxury of 36 years of success, hard graft and insight into playing, coaching, managing, administration and financing a club.

I observe that making direct and even sarcastic remarks about the management and set-up, without considering ownership, zero funds, player ability, size of squad and the size of this great club, shows ignorance of the highest order.

1) Morecambe is probably the smallest club in the EFL and is without doubt batting above its potential.
2) Since entering the League, Morecambe have been a bookies favourite for relegation EVERY season.
3) Morecambe have never been in a position to buy players without having to sell.
4) Morecambe's coaches spot and develop talent to supplement no funds.
5) Morecambe then has to sell any sizeable talent to keep the club afloat.
6) Morecambe's management have gone without pay several times....Would you work and take abuse for nothing?
7) Morcambe's limited squad requires rotation and risk to fulfill fixtures but not damage players. It means a manager can rarely field the best on paper 11.
8) Morecambe have no fit grass facilities that can safely prepare a team.
9) Morecambe's management and support staff have a vast amount of playing, coaching, management and analysis experience and have built an EFL team based on this wealth of knowledge and experience and NO purchasing power. The survival of the team is due to its management, preparation and recovery. All directly attributable to the guys in the managers coats and their selected staff.
10) I am aware that bigger and wealthier clubs have approached our management but fortunately they have declined bigger roles, more money, more prospects and security for the sake of and the dreams of this wonderful club. Would you do that...No chance.

Despite my affection for the club, I am qualified to say; please be passionate, critical and even frustrated.
BUT, for the one or two hyper critical and sarcastic posters, think twice about the devisive and narrow bile that is fired at our management. Bentley out?.... Be careful what you wish for. You only know what you had when it's gone. I repeat, this club is batting above its realistic potential....And it's not down to you.

Well done to the players, fans, staff, helpers AND managers for the comeback. After a couple of players not doing their jobs, we were 0-2 down. It was poor. That largely rests with the men in red. Changes, adapting and finding our balls, resulted in a 4-3 win. A more entertaining adventure than many Premier League games. Ask yourself, where else would you really have preferred to be last night. If it wasn't being at The Globe and fighting to be in the EFL despite all odds whilst understanding the club's limitations, you need to get on board.
Merry Christmas.x


Just thought I'd summarise the above without all the waffle and irritating 'trying to sound cleverer than I am' stuff.

Jim's doing a good job based on the money situation/size of the club and the moaning fans should cut him some slack.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Keith » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:30 pm

shrimperteer wrote:Just thought I'd summarise the above without all the waffle and irritating 'trying to sound cleverer than I am' stuff.

Jim's doing a good job based on the money situation/size of the club and the moaning fans should cut him some slack.


:lol: :lol: :lol: LOL! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now if only you'd just posted that in 2017, you'd have saved three pages of discussion!
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Re: The Wider View

Postby erics seafood » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:10 pm

Greetings friends. Despite the odd disaffection with my "waffle" we've managed to create a good 95% constructive discussion that doesn't involve personal attacks on the players or staff. There In lies this clubs survival ...fingers crossed. As for saving 3 pages or waffle, very constructive, very brave, grow up. If anyone doesn't enjoy factual analysis of their club, it's a shame. It's how professional sport survives. Been there, done that and youll notice no bragging etc...just a willingness to generate sensible discussion and lots of scars and fractures to evidence my knowledge. I'M NO BETTER THAN YOU, so no personal stuff heh. I hope you're all enjoying the battle. Much respect and success for 2018. Xxx
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Re: The Wider View

Postby parceldave » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:42 pm

Keith wrote:
John L wrote:Knocking a quid or as much as possible off the price of all pints would also help encourage more people to stay at the ground longer. You can go to the Trimpell or the York and pay just over 2 quid for a pint of ale. How about a bit of competition?


Completely agree! If we could keep people drinking after the game, even if simply to break even, it adds to the over-all 'match day experience'.


So would it not be simple to offer 50p a pint off for all Shrimps Trust members , therefore encouraging them to stay longer after the match and at the same time encourage more fans to become Trust members .
I also think something similar could be used to offer a discount for hospitality to Trust members and also ST holders like it used to be up until this season , it seems ludicrous to me that a ST holder has to pay the same as a non ST holder for match day hospitality. :o
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Keith » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:25 pm

parceldave wrote:So would it not be simple to offer 50p a pint off for all Shrimps Trust members , therefore encouraging them to stay longer after the match and at the same time encourage more fans to become Trust members .
I also think something similar could be used to offer a discount for hospitality to Trust members and also ST holders like it used to be up until this season , it seems ludicrous to me that a ST holder has to pay the same as a non ST holder for match day hospitality. :o


I agree with all these comments. If the environment was such that people stayed behind after the game, even if only breaking even, the club would make more money by bringing attendances back up. Ever since the move to The Globe, customers, in particular ex-customers, have been feeding back that they aren’t enjoying the ‘match day experience’. Any other business would bite your hand off for feedback of the type the club regularly get, yet they ignore it and the attendances continue to dwindle.

If people were able to enjoy coming, regardless of whether we win or lose, play well or play crap, they would keep coming and it becomes habit forming once more. We’ve endured really dreadful football in the past but still enjoyed the overall ‘experience’, usually because friends had also endured the same dreadful football, so we could suffer together. We need to get back the ‘in it together’ mentality, which begins with the club embracing the fans so that we all believe it is our club once more.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby BerlinWaller » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:58 pm

I walk past the Hurley Flyer to and from the games and notice how many casual drinkers there are in there. It isn't a typical drinkers pub but it attracts more drinkers than the waiting room we call a supporters bar. I haven't been in JB's for a couple of seasons now but by the sounds of it, it is still rubbish. We should shut that bar down, rent it out to a food outlet and build a proper supporters bar on the wasteland in front of the ground.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby John L » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:52 pm

BerlinWaller wrote:I haven't been in JB's for a couple of seasons now but by the sounds of it, it is still rubbish. We should shut that bar down, rent it out to a food outlet and build a proper supporters bar on the wasteland in front of the ground.


It's actually better... you should come and see for yourself... but the prices are still uncompetitive for most people who would otherwise stay for a couple or more.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Westgate Wanderer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:20 pm

John L wrote:
BerlinWaller wrote:I haven't been in JB's for a couple of seasons now but by the sounds of it, it is still rubbish. We should shut that bar down, rent it out to a food outlet and build a proper supporters bar on the wasteland in front of the ground.


It's actually better... you should come and see for yourself... but the prices are still uncompetitive for most people who would otherwise stay for a couple or more.
Still looks like a hotel lobby! Within about 20 minutes of the final whistle i doubt there were 20 people in it! I always go in after the games, didn't even have to wait to get to the bar yesterday it was so quiet! 1 pint of bitter, 1 pint of strongbow and a small lemonade £8.00. Don't know how that compares elsewhere.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby parceldave » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:08 pm

Westgate Wanderer wrote:
John L wrote:
BerlinWaller wrote:I haven't been in JB's for a couple of seasons now but by the sounds of it, it is still rubbish. We should shut that bar down, rent it out to a food outlet and build a proper supporters bar on the wasteland in front of the ground.


It's actually better... you should come and see for yourself... but the prices are still uncompetitive for most people who would otherwise stay for a couple or more.
Still looks like a hotel lobby! Within about 20 minutes of the final whistle i doubt there were 20 people in it! I always go in after the games, didn't even have to wait to get to the bar yesterday it was so quiet! 1 pint of bitter, 1 pint of strongbow and a small lemonade £8.00. Don't know how that compares elsewhere.

Probably about a fiver in the Exchange. :o
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Re: The Wider View

Postby KenH » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:01 am

sandgrown wrote:(THAT was one of the dumbest mistakes right at the start, segregating the 'have's & have nots' & fostering a 'them & us' attitude).

for me this was the biggest mistake of all, I hate the 3 tier price seating in the main stand, it should be like it was at C.P. first come first served. ( S.T.H. keep theirs ).


I have to agree. With the PMG stand being so sparsely occupied, it's a mockery having 3 different prices. Just another annoying money-grabbing opportunity and, yes, creating a "them and us" attitude. If the blocks were even half full, you could understand it (just). There is logic behind the red seats costing a little more as they have access to the Local Choice suite, but no logic at all having different charging between blocks D & E. In fact, given attendances, there's a lot to be said for closing off block E completely and trying to get a better atmosphere by having block D more densely occupied.
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Re: The Wider View

Postby Gone_Shrimping » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:21 am

KenH wrote:
sandgrown wrote:(THAT was one of the dumbest mistakes right at the start, segregating the 'have's & have nots' & fostering a 'them & us' attitude).

for me this was the biggest mistake of all, I hate the 3 tier price seating in the main stand, it should be like it was at C.P. first come first served. ( S.T.H. keep theirs ).


I have to agree. With the PMG stand being so sparsely occupied, it's a mockery having 3 different prices. Just another annoying money-grabbing opportunity and, yes, creating a "them and us" attitude. If the blocks were even half full, you could understand it (just). There is logic behind the red seats costing a little more as they have access to the Local Choice suite, but no logic at all having different charging between blocks D & E. In fact, given attendances, there's a lot to be said for closing off block E completely and trying to get a better atmosphere by having block D more densely occupied.



Until someone that has feeling for the club buys the major shareholding the club will continue to drift like a ship heading for the rocks.
The Accrington Stanley owner travels on the team bus and there looks like there is a real rapport between the board and the players.
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