O/T David Morris popular again

Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Keith » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:36 pm

OLDHAMADE wrote:...sorry once again for my outspokenness that maybe should have been said by a more educated person.


There's no need to apologise for being passionate about what you believe in, for the same reason I won't apologise for being passionate about what I believe in. I started out with nothing. Left school with one 'C' grade 'O' level and an almost record number of 'Unclassified'. We've done okay for ourselves, not wealthy, but certainly not struggling. But I remember having sugar sandwiches for tea because there was no other food in the house & making toast by holding bread against the gas fire, because there was no money for the electric meter. But before we turn this in to a Monty Python/'Yorkshire' sketch, where we disagree is how do we support those less fortunate than ourselves... or indeed, should we help them? I'm amazed that some people are genuinely so naive or blind or stupid, or simply lack the empathy to understand that the British government is quite knowingly driving more and more people in to poverty. Often, the most vulnerable people in society. That there are people who are in utter denial that deliberate government policies are making poor people poorer while protecting the wealthy.

I don't get angry about that because of envy of the rich.
I get angry because I'm so thankful that I'm not one of the poor.

To paraphrase 'The Usual Suspects', the greatest trick the Tories ever pulled, was convincing the working class that the country's problems are due to the poorest people in society.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby halfwayprawn » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:37 am

Just lock this -UCKING thread :evil:
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Posh » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:31 am

eartheart wrote:It is really hard reading some of this. I am someone who does not work in the paid sense of the term. I became very ill sometime years ago and spend all my time in chronic pain and considerable distress. While totally supported by my health professionals I have been turned down by the PIP assessments. I live on £73 a week. I am 56 and started work at 15 and worked until I was 49. I have run down the little savings I had and live in a rented room. I did not vote for Labour or Tory as it happens, Labour brought in the work assessments and got American insurance company UNUM to to run them - they are notoriously awful as a company. The Tories have turned the screw. The minimum wage is the equivalent of nearly £300 a week yet if you are to ill to work £73 is considered enough and people on here seem to concur. Really you had might as well come and finish folks like me off as that is what is happening. I used to come and watch Morecambe a fair bit but it is way beyond my paygrade now even if I were up to it. When folks write and talk as some on here do you are talking about real people. Please remember that - I would so love t be well enough to work - being ill is truly the worst thing


It’s heartbreaking reading this. I find it staggering that someone suffering in pain and unable to work that is no fault of their own can be expected to live on £290 a month.

We judge our society by the help we give those least able to help themselves and your story shows we are failing and badly.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby OLDHAMADE » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:32 am

Posh wrote:
eartheart wrote:It is really hard reading some of this. I am someone who does not work in the paid sense of the term. I became very ill sometime years ago and spend all my time in chronic pain and considerable distress. While totally supported by my health professionals I have been turned down by the PIP assessments. I live on £73 a week. I am 56 and started work at 15 and worked until I was 49. I have run down the little savings I had and live in a rented room. I did not vote for Labour or Tory as it happens, Labour brought in the work assessments and got American insurance company UNUM to to run them - they are notoriously awful as a company. The Tories have turned the screw. The minimum wage is the equivalent of nearly £300 a week yet if you are to ill to work £73 is considered enough and people on here seem to concur. Really you had might as well come and finish folks like me off as that is what is happening. I used to come and watch Morecambe a fair bit but it is way beyond my paygrade now even if I were up to it. When folks write and talk as some on here do you are talking about real people. Please remember that - I would so love t be well enough to work - being ill is truly the worst thing


It’s heartbreaking reading this. I find it staggering that someone suffering in pain and unable to work that is no fault of their own can be expected to live on £290 a month.

We judge our society by the help we give those least able to help themselves and your story shows we are failing and badly.


I have nothing but praise for this gentleman and this is the classic example of someone that should be getting all the help and benefits available to them that the current system is failing to deliver,
We all have our parts to play and that starts with bringing into line all those who cheat at the expense of folk like this.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Keith » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:04 pm

OLDHAMADE wrote:that starts with bringing into line all those who cheat at the expense of folk like this.


At the risk of going around in circles, that's my point Ade. This government, and Morris are sweeping up lots of genuine people in their attacks & demonisation of a very, very small minority. Unemployment benefit is only about 2% of the benefits payments, so even if they stopped unemployment benefit in its entirety it would have almost no impact. Even if 25% of all the people on benefits were 'benefit cheats' (and I very much doubt it is that high) then it is still only 0.5% of the system. But it is a good sound bite and it neatly diverts attention away from where the real problems are, in an unfair tax system. And it allows them to get away with starving disabled people and having children living in poverty.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Christies Child » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:54 pm

Keith wrote:
OLDHAMADE wrote:that starts with bringing into line all those who cheat at the expense of folk like this.


At the risk of going around in circles, that's my point Ade. This government, and Morris are sweeping up lots of genuine people in their attacks & demonisation of a very, very small minority. Unemployment benefit is only about 2% of the benefits payments, so even if they stopped unemployment benefit in its entirety it would have almost no impact. Even if 25% of all the people on benefits were 'benefit cheats' (and I very much doubt it is that high) then it is still only 0.5% of the system. But it is a good sound bite and it neatly diverts attention away from where the real problems are, in an unfair tax system. And it allows them to get away with starving disabled people and having children living in poverty.


....and of course the opposition have all the answers... :roll:
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Freez » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:26 pm

Again you are diverting away from the issues.
Asking what an alternative government would do is legitimate question, but currently that's not an option, so if this system is punishing the suffering people, and some are suffering so much they are ending their lives, what can be done to stop it now, before more go the same way?
Glib retorts on what anyone else would do don't add anything to the argument just deflect and cloud the issue.

A person being fined for speeding cannot claim he's innocent as others were driving the same but were not caught by the cameras!!
It's about what's happening now isn't it?
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Christies Child » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:21 pm

IF and it's a very big IF we have a change of Government next time, it will be interesting to see how they tackle the problem. As I said in a previous post, ALL Governments of whatever colour have contributed to the current situation. To lay all the blame entirely on this lot is wrong. I'm no lover of the current shower but the problems highlighted in this thread have been on the increase for decades and no Government to date (or I suggest in the future) will be able to resolve the problems no matter what their respective policies may be.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Bare Grills » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:27 pm

It was an alternative government that introduced the whole thing, the current government just changed some of the criteria. If you're going to complain about the process, at least accept the fact that "this system" is a Labour invention. Yes it needs changing but it's not just the fault of the current government. That being the case, would a different party do any better?
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Keith » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:02 pm

Christies Child wrote:....and of course the opposition have all the answers... :roll:


Surely even you would accept that Corbyn is nothing like Blair?

If the only answer is to starve disabled people & keep children in poverty, then perhaps you need to start asking different questions?

Or admit that you think it is a reasonable thing to do, like David 'I see no poverty' Morris.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby George Dawes » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:27 pm

Don't think it matters who's in power, we don't see a great difference do we? you can't please everybody.

It's like a vicious circle

Labour when in power can be accused of being irresponsible with to much spending and borrowing, then shit hits the fan.

->

Conservative pick up the pieces, then get accused of being tossers mainly by working class with money being to tight.

->

And then the UK suffers memory loss and votes Labour in anti-austerity protest, and then we all go round again and again.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Ispyshrimp » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:22 pm

Totally agree
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Christies Child » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:51 pm

Keith wrote:
Christies Child wrote:....and of course the opposition have all the answers... :roll:


Surely even you would accept that Corbyn is nothing like Blair?

If the only answer is to starve disabled people & keep children in poverty, then perhaps you need to start asking different questions?

Or admit that you think it is a reasonable thing to do, like David 'I see no poverty' Morris.


I just don't believe that anybody would intentionally set policies that would deliberately target the disabled or children in poverty to make their lives even more difficult...if they did then the electorate have the ability (and quite rightly) to vote them out at the earliest opportunity.

Poverty has always existed....to not even acknowledge that it has shows how blinkered some folk can be.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Keith » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:26 pm

Christies Child wrote:I just don't believe that anybody would intentionally set policies that would deliberately target the disabled or children in poverty to make their lives even more difficult...if they did then the electorate have the ability (and quite rightly) to vote them out at the earliest opportunity.

Poverty has always existed....to not even acknowledge that it has shows how blinkered some folk can be.


Have you actually read this thread properly???

FFS. :evil:

It's the fact that you and many others like you "don't believe that anybody would intentionally set policies that would deliberately target the disabled or children in poverty to make their lives even more difficult" that is allowing them to do exactly that. I've given you a direct, first hand example. And I've given you links that even the Daily Mail reported atrocious behaviour. The assessors were paid bonuses based upon the number of people they assessed as fit for work, no matter how they did so, no questions asked.

That was a deliberate policy.

They knew that disabled people who had their benefits stopped would almost always win their appeals.
So they made it so that if they had the audacity to appeal, they lost ALL benefits for six months (or however long it took until the appeal was heard).

That was another deliberate policy, to stop people from appealing.

"Poverty has always existed"... So that makes it okay to make it worse now? Protect the rich & screw the poor and don't dare to challenge that belief because 'it's always been like that'.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Christies Child » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:04 pm

Keith, I've obviously hit a raw nerve with my post but I and others are entitled to our opinion whist we can ALL respect yours.

I offer no apology for this or any other posts on this thread that have raised the issue of poverty and disability, it is as previously stated only my belief BUT I have to say that David Morris wouldn't be my favoured candidate if I lived within the town boundaries.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) depending on ones point of view, we've got Tim Farron who does champion local issues and is an outspoken critic of the current Government as well as those utterings of the Labour leadership.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Keith » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:49 am

Christies Child wrote:I just don't believe that anybody would intentionally set policies that would deliberately target the disabled or children in poverty to make their lives even more difficult...


Christies Child wrote:Keith, I've obviously hit a raw nerve with my post but I and others are entitled to our opinion whist we can ALL respect yours.


The 'raw nerve' Neil is because so many people, even when presented with the evidence, still live in denial of what is really happening. This debate began because the local MP refuses to visit the places in his constituency where children live in poverty. He actually says that he "sees no poverty" but he won't see it if he doesn't look. If people don't want to believe it happens so they close their eyes, stick fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la whenever presented with evidence, then nothing can ever change.

Or, they can take the position like Morris; who when not claiming for mileage driven in England while he was on an over-seas trip at the time, and who managed to have the second highest expenses after the MP for Shetlands, gets angry and claim it is all lies and a conspiracy.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Bare Grills » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:48 pm

I don't see where this discussion is heading, one minute it's an attack on Morris, the next policies. Morris alone hasn't brought in the checks, nor did the current government.

The benefit system is being cheated and the cheating minority hit the headlines, so they should. I do take exception to Granada's initial report where they could, and should, have done a bit more digging when they showed someone with an essential monthly outgoing of £51 to $ky. They just passed over that yet any right minded person would have questioned it seeing as the article was about poverty.

People are suffering under the policy and to all those genuine claimants, I do wish the system was changed.

I don't like any politician, well, except for one that makes me laugh. Hmm, make that two that make me laugh but for completely opposite reasons. Local elections, I vote for the person. County elections, usually the party and national elections, always the party. That's how a lot of us vote and that's not going to change. Not even all of us that have joined in this discussion would choose an individual at a national election but instead vote for the party. Love him or hate him, that's how we have Morris.

If we're going to continue highlighting deficiencies in our politicians, this is going to be the longest thread yet.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Keith » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:35 pm

Bare Grills wrote:I don't see where this discussion is heading, one minute it's an attack on Morris, the next policies.


A ShrimpsVoices thread that meanders through different subjects? That's never happened before??? :roll:
Stick with us, you'll get used to it! ;)

Bare Grills wrote:The benefit system is being cheated and the cheating minority hit the headlines, so they should. I do take exception to Granada's initial report where they could, and should, have done a bit more digging when they showed someone with an essential monthly outgoing of £51 to $ky.


Did they? How do you know that? (Genuine question, where was that information?)

Bare Grills wrote:People are suffering under the policy and to all those genuine claimants, I do wish the system was changed.


The problem is, it won't change all the time people don't want to acknowledge that it is happening.
Nor will it change while people think it is acceptable 'collateral damage', in order to hit the cheats. But they rarely realise that the cheats are a small minority of a small minority.

I just wish we collectively had the desire for a fair tax system, where wealthy people would still be wealthy, but not by making the poor & vulnerable pay disproportionately for it.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Bare Grills » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:49 pm

Most people reacted to the Granada item the day after the original report when Granada showed another report and brought Morris into it. I watched the original report and it was on a hand written essentials list shown in the report. I checked ITV player and I didn't find any local news programmes on catch-up otherwise I'd link to it. If anyone can find it, I'd love to see it again and see if I saw correctly.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby shrimpnsave » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:48 pm

Keith wrote:
Christies Child wrote:I just don't believe that anybody would intentionally set policies that would deliberately target the disabled or children in poverty to make their lives even more difficult...


Christies Child wrote:Keith, I've obviously hit a raw nerve with my post but I and others are entitled to our opinion whist we can ALL respect yours.


The 'raw nerve' Neil is because so many people, even when presented with the evidence, still live in denial of what is really happening. This debate began because the local MP refuses to visit the places in his constituency where children live in poverty. He actually says that he "sees no poverty" but he won't see it if he doesn't look. If people don't want to believe it happens so they close their eyes, stick fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la whenever presented with evidence, then nothing can ever change.

Or, they can take the position like Morris; who when not claiming for mileage driven in England while he was on an over-seas trip at the time, and who managed to have the second highest expenses after the MP for Shetlands, gets angry and claim it is all lies and a conspiracy.

Why not run as a candidate and change things from the inside
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Joel Ninety » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:51 pm

Still seeing a lot of "I am ok with this" here. Shameful.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby shrimpnsave » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:00 pm

Joel Ninety wrote:Still seeing a lot of "I am ok with this" here. Shameful.

It was a genuine question :?:
why not start by running for office and let the electorate decide if you are capable or just a moaner that sits on the sidelines and criticize if it dont match your political agenda :?:
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby Bare Grills » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:59 am

shrimpnsave wrote:
Keith wrote:
Christies Child wrote:I just don't believe that anybody would intentionally set policies that would deliberately target the disabled or children in poverty to make their lives even more difficult...


Christies Child wrote:Keith, I've obviously hit a raw nerve with my post but I and others are entitled to our opinion whist we can ALL respect yours.


The 'raw nerve' Neil is because so many people, even when presented with the evidence, still live in denial of what is really happening. This debate began because the local MP refuses to visit the places in his constituency where children live in poverty. He actually says that he "sees no poverty" but he won't see it if he doesn't look. If people don't want to believe it happens so they close their eyes, stick fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la whenever presented with evidence, then nothing can ever change.

Or, they can take the position like Morris; who when not claiming for mileage driven in England while he was on an over-seas trip at the time, and who managed to have the second highest expenses after the MP for Shetlands, gets angry and claim it is all lies and a conspiracy.

Why not run as a candidate and change things from the inside

I thought you'd have to be in the UK, or even the EU, to stand for parliament so Keith probably doesn't qualify :lol:
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby New_Ground_Watcher » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:45 am

Bare Grills wrote:Most people reacted to the Granada item the day after the original report when Granada showed another report and brought Morris into it. I watched the original report and it was on a hand written essentials list shown in the report. I checked ITV player and I didn't find any local news programmes on catch-up otherwise I'd link to it. If anyone can find it, I'd love to see it again and see if I saw correctly.

Here's the link :- http://www.itv.com/news/granada/update/ ... ol-hungry/

The £51 might not be TV, it could be for phone and internet. It looks a normal set of bills to me for someone in that situation.
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Re: O/T David Morris popular again

Postby marky » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:06 pm

Added to this, the internet is now an essential expense and is accepted as such by the Financial Conduct Authority, whose rules I, as a welfare support adviser, have to abide by. Universal Credit is entirely managed online by default. They don’t even send letters. It’s all on your online account. Kids need the internet for homework. Job seekers need it to look for work. Yes, you can get reasonable data contracts but I had no internet for a month or so last year and used all of my 20GB allowance in that time. I do advise people to speak to the likes of Sky, but if they are tied to a contract then they are tied to a contract. The only way out is to stop paying, which isn’t advisable given this goes on your credit file.

Many of the comments on this thread are simply borne out of ignorance of the reality. I spend my working life in this area and in the 8 ½ years I’ve worked as a jobcentre adviser, volunteered at Citizens Advice and worked in the welfare support sector, I could count cheats on two hands. I’ve had hundreds of clients in that time. Food banks are constantly growing. People can only access them via formal referrals from professionals. That is how it works. Many people living in poverty are working families. I’ve seen very vulnerable people lose their sickness and/or disability benefits for utterly ridiculous reasons. Virtually all of them have then won appeals after months of anguish, poverty and severe distress. I’ve had people with severe mental ill-health assessed by physiotherapists. The system is brokers and that is absolutely not the fault of claimants.
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