The goal drought

The goal drought

Postby fulwoodshrimp » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:04 pm

Our poor start to the season is in contrast to previous years when we accumulate points early before a slump that takes us worryingly close to the relegation places. It isn't so much the poor points return but the absence of goals that is a real concern. The statistics are bleak- the lowest goalscorers in the division, the only League 2 team that hasn't scored a first half goal, one goal in the last five matches and that in stoppage time when the game was lost. On paper we look to have a strong squad so what is the problem? Do we approach games with too negative an attitude focusing on defence rather than attack? Is the management team picking the right, balanced squad? Have we got the shape of the team right? Is midfield creative enough to make chances for for the strikers? Up front do we have natural goalscorers, threatening opposition defenders? I am unsure what the causes are for our goal drought but I know the management team need to resolve the problems quickly. What do other fans think the problem is?
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Re: The goal drought

Postby sandgrown » Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:52 pm

i think the problem is that Jim was a defender who loves clean sheets, and ends up chasing the game at the death.

by comparison Coley was a striker who loved scoring, and that seems his priority as a manager !
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Re: The goal drought

Postby marky No.1 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:04 pm

Accy only beat Carlisle 3.0 today, Coley won't be happy with all his other missed chances
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Re: The goal drought

Postby George Dawes » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:12 pm

in previous seasons we've gone with just one upfront, even at home, but this season when I've seen the team sheets I've been happy with the players selected, we seem to be getting more players into the box with this formation, still early days.

If anything I'd be tempted to try Brough who's our best crosser as a Winger with Thompson on the right, who's shown he's still no slow coach.

But you mention attitude, what won't help is if the new players read social media, interviews etc and hear the same old (awww poor little old Morecambe, punching above our weight , lucky to be in the FL, basically feeling sorry for ourselves ) might then start thinking oh well just staying ups good enough, no pressure(nice family club) don't have to kill ourselves every week.
Last edited by George Dawes on Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby MFC-Manc » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:18 pm

We need a proven goal scorer(Jim has undoubtedly tried to get one). Accrington had windass and replaced him with Kee(who is superb)oxford had roofe a couple of seasons ago.....etc etc. Stockton was a goal scorer and his goals helped us last season. I'm just hoping Lang can develop into one for us.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Keith » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:19 pm

marky No.1 wrote:Accy only beat Carlisle 3.0 today, Coley won't be happy with all his other missed chances


I know you are being sarcastic, but in fact, on Radio Lancashire, Coley was still moaning about conceding late against us last week and how he always wants a clean sheet, which kind of blows this theory out of the water somewhat!
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Christies Child » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:29 pm

MFC-Manc wrote:We need a proven goal scorer(Jim has undoubtedly tried to get one). Accrington had windass and replaced him with Kee(who is superb)oxford had roofe a couple of seasons ago.....etc etc. Stockton was a goal scorer and his goals helped us last season. I'm just hoping Lang can develop into one for us.


Sometimes you've got to throw a youngster in at the deep end and see what happens. Wigan expect big things from Long but 15 minutes pitch time isn't enough to get into a game. Just wish that Jim would gamble and get him on from the start.

Having watched his post match comments on the OWS I doubt that Jim will gamble as he implies that he was happy with some of our play but made the comment that he thought the foul that lead to their first goal wasn't a foul.....and that we didn't get the rub of the green when they fouled us..... :?: :?: :?:
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Re: The goal drought

Postby parkyboy » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:47 pm

just been watching div 2 goals on sky .a lot of them from fast moving open play ,how come we can do that we supposedly have the players so is it tactics or bad planning by you know who
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Re: The goal drought

Postby BerlinWaller » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:55 pm

parkyboy wrote:just been watching div 2 goals on sky .a lot of them from fast moving open play ,how come we can do that we supposedly have the players so is it tactics or bad planning by you know who


I am happy to know that i am not the only one to think this! I have been saying it for ages. You see strikers running on to through balls or wingers getting to the byline and putting it in the box but never by our lads. At times it looks like we are not even arsed about scoring.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby marky No.1 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:51 am

Keith wrote:
marky No.1 wrote:Accy only beat Carlisle 3.0 today, Coley won't be happy with all his other missed chances


I know you are being sarcastic, but in fact, on Radio Lancashire, Coley was still moaning about conceding late against us last week and how he always wants a clean sheet, which kind of blows this theory out of the water somewhat!


Sarcastic! ..Me?? :lol:

Yes he banged on about conceding, but he also did the same last week for the missed chances and how they should have scored 3 or 4 in the first half
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Gone_Shrimping » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:55 am

A bit more good news :( :( Accrington have scored more league goals (14) this season than anyone else in the top 4 divisions although most Premier League clubs have played a couple of games less.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Westgate Wanderer » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:26 am

Gone_Shrimping wrote:A bit more good news :( :( Accrington have scored more league goals (14) this season than anyone else in the top 4 divisions although most Premier League clubs have played a couple of games less.
Is this because they have the attitude of we don't care who we are playing we expect to win? Radio Accy's reporter started his interview with Coley yestarday sayiing was this the best so far this season, to which he replied it was ok. On the other hand our illustrious leader is trotting out difficult place to come, on a good run,big strong side(as said to Quinny) Would be nice if he changed the record (and negative tactics)! I've got me tin hat ready for the we love Jim brigade 8-)
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Re: The goal drought

Postby seasonsinthesun » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:37 am

I understand what you mean, comparing John Coleman's attitude with Jim's, but maybe Jim is just being realistic in that we are in a different situation to Accrington. Jim is just saying it as it is.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Westgate Wanderer » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:46 am

seasonsinthesun wrote:I understand what you mean, comparing John Coleman's attitude with Jim's, but maybe Jim is just being realistic in that we are in a different situation to Accrington. Jim is just saying it as it is.
What's different? We put 11 players on the pitch so do they, ok they like to mix football with rugby :D
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Re: The goal drought

Postby steve mfc » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:21 pm

seasonsinthesun wrote:I understand what you mean, comparing John Coleman's attitude with Jim's, but maybe Jim is just being realistic in that we are in a different situation to Accrington. Jim is just saying it as it is.


Well I'm afraid Jim is just being Jim, he does tend to over do the excuses and consistently reminds us of how much other sides are spending, it just comes across as being negative and I cant for the life of me see how it can have anything but a demoralising effect on the team, Coleman on the other hand is very demanding but at the same time seems to be able give them the confidence to get the best out of them and he was doing that before they came into a bit of money.

Lets forget about the budget and the little old Morecambe punching above our weight routine, tell the players they are good enough to compete with anyone in this league let find our best eleven and stick with it we need a bit of continuity the constant changing of the team and players playing in different positions is not helping.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby George Dawes » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:27 pm

remember Olivier as missed half our L2 games though being rested or suspended.

he's certainly effective, and even against Stanley(before his red) won most of his battles and holds the ball up well, it's about forming a partnership with a front two for me.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Christies Child » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:09 am

George Dawes wrote:remember Olivier as missed half our L2 games though being rested or suspended.

he's certainly effective, and even against Stanley(before his red) won most of his battles and holds the ball up well, it's about forming a partnership with a front two for me.


Totally agree.

No use in having someone who wins the vast majority of duels in the air if there is nobody close enough to take advantage of it.

At times he looks totally frustrated by the lack of support he's getting.

Just hope that it's not too long before those who dictate play see the advantages of having a partnership up front, playing together as a duel strike force rather than (for me) the negativity of a single striker which to date is not working as can be seen by the lack of goals.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Little Shrimp » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:37 pm

The tricky thing with two up front is you have to take the extra man from somewhere on the pitch. Defence; we have to play with a 3 man defence with wingbacks which we know our CBs struggle with. If we were to do this I'd suggest putting Muller in a sweeping Beckenbauer (and Luiz for Chelsea nowadays) role with freedom to roam a bit and essentially leave the other two CBs to operate as a two.

Midfield; we'd be a man light if we took a player from there and with the way a lot of teams play currently we'd very likely be overrun. A solution could still be 4-2-3-1 but Osborne (good goalscorer say stats) deployed at No10 focusing on making lots of runs behind the defence off Oliver like Alli when he plays for England. Move the wide players in to support down the middle when Osborne plays more on the last line, push full backs high and maybe pop Muller in CDM to drop back in defence (similarly to Dier for Spurs) to support the defence when the full backs push.

Just a couple of thoughts :lol:
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Ntini » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:33 pm

I'd like to see Olivier (once he's back) and McGurk given a good run in the team together.

I'm not a big fan of the whole 3-5-2 fad, and I don't think we have the right players to do that either. Jim's strengths, for me, lie in getting the best out of players (Olivier, McGurk and Campbell are just three I hope flourish here under him). I just wish he'd help himself on that front and give a settled team a good run together.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby KenH » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:38 pm

Ntini wrote:I'm not a big fan of the whole 3-5-2 fad


Neither am I. We seem to be starting 3-5-2 and then changing to 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 mid match, which doesn't help the players gel either. But even in a 3-5-2, the front line is usually just one with the other more supporting the midfield than the target man. Yes, Oliver did seem to be getting very frustrated at the lack of support and maybe those frustrations led to his red card. No point in having Oliver as the target man when there's no-one supporting him - i.e. when Kev and Thommo are out wide each side.

I really don't think that having 3 centre backs is working - we've tried it for a few games now and still conceding, and the wing back don't seem to be having the required impact going forward. Even worse is 3 centre backs and then someone like Rose or Muller as a defensive midfielder, almost acting as a fourth centre back, meaning we're almost too well covered in the middle, but with gaps each side which the opposition keep taking advantage of.

Just my personal opinion of course, but I think we need a solid 4 back line to deal with the defence and then a midfield that goes further forward. Season after season, we're seeing a big block of green grass between the front line and the midfield, the latter typically holding back to support the defence, which inevitably leads to hoofball.
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Re: The goal drought

Postby marky No.1 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:49 pm

Ntini wrote: I just wish he'd help himself on that front and give a settled team a good run together.


Absolutely! I know the Oliver sending off has changed things, but I would rather it was only changed once, rather than what will probably be 3 games.

Saturday was the second time that our Captain was subbed at half time, which isn't great either - can only assume injury as with Winnard.

We do seem to worry an awful lot about playing Saturday/Tuesday hence the tinkering
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Re: The goal drought

Postby George Dawes » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:47 pm

Little Shrimp wrote:The tricky thing with two up front is you have to take the extra man from somewhere on the pitch. Defence; we have to play with a 3 man defence with wingbacks which we know our CBs struggle with. If we were to do this I'd suggest putting Muller in a sweeping Beckenbauer (and Luiz for Chelsea nowadays) role with freedom to roam a bit and essentially leave the other two CBs to operate as a two.

Midfield; we'd be a man light if we took a player from there and with the way a lot of teams play currently we'd very likely be overrun. A solution could still be 4-2-3-1 but Osborne (good goalscorer say stats) deployed at No10 focusing on making lots of runs behind the defence off Oliver like Alli when he plays for England. Move the wide players in to support down the middle when Osborne plays more on the last line, push full backs high and maybe pop Muller in CDM to drop back in defence (similarly to Dier for Spurs) to support the defence when the full backs push.

Just a couple of thoughts :lol:
know what you mean being over run in midfield.

but we've got a lot if new players so i wouldn't over complicate things, just a simple grass roots 442 (diamond shape) with Muller asked to anchor the midfield like the master Beckenbauer , Ze Germanz, Dast ist Good Jar 8-)
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Re: The goal drought

Postby Freez » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:07 pm

Being honest, we have set up the last two games as a back four and Muller in midfield with a fit Flemmo on the bench, and in my opinion that's why we have lacked punch up front as Muller is a decent enough stopper but has no attacking threat passing wise.
So the back three hasn't worked but we won 1 drew 2 and lost 1. Back four we lost both??

I'm not against either, depending on the wide men or fullbacks, Brough got forward twice at Meadow Lane, Aj once in open play. However we play we need to get more men in the opposition box to cause more of a threat, as when these guys cross it we need bodies to get on the end of them?
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Re: The goal drought

Postby George Dawes » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:47 pm

Freez wrote:Being honest, we have set up the last two games as a back four and Muller in midfield with a fit Flemmo on the bench, and in my opinion that's why we have lacked punch up front as Muller is a decent enough stopper but has no attacking threat passing wise.
So the back three hasn't worked but we won 1 drew 2 and lost 1. Back four we lost both??

I'm not against either, depending on the wide men or fullbacks, Brough got forward twice at Meadow Lane, Aj once in open play. However we play we need to get more men in the opposition box to cause more of a threat, as when these guys cross it we need bodies to get on the end of them?

Muller against Stanley for me was one if the few positives, he made some good interceptions, I don't expect players in that role to have an attacking threat.

just to hold and cover fellow midfielders going forward protecting the back four, with simple balls to the nearest team mate, like Dier does for England and Spurs as a Center Back doing a job in Midfield while Ali goes forward, Osbourne could be our Ali .
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Re: The goal drought

Postby marky No.1 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:13 pm

Freez wrote: Brough got forward twice at Meadow Lane, Aj once in open play.


It would be nice to think one or other would go forward for more than once every half hour ;)
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