Winnard - is he serious?

Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby KenH » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:43 am

Christies Child wrote:Have we built a squad of youngsters to make up the numbers who will probably struggle to get a first team game rather than operate with a squad of say 24 than the current 28 and should have invested in a wee bit more quality :?:


Jim's had his fingers burnt in the past few seasons with expensive players off due to injuries for long periods, particularly Peter Murphy, but also Baz and Redshaw in earlier seasons. With a small squad in the first place, losing key players like that is disastrous. If you can get 2 half decent players instead of someone really good like Murphy, you can see the appeal. It's a risk, but so is paying more for fewer good players and having 1 or 2 injured for months, then having to rely on the youth team to make up numbers.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby BoroRedShrimp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:20 am

It is funny how we are little Morecambe again, and an over-riding idea that we are lucky we are not in the national league. What has happened to the belief we had when we entered the football league & beat PNE & Wolves & took a large following to Sheff Utd with a positive outlook and party spirit? This has faded in my view sadly. Many have stopped coming for different reasons, but what won't help is an in-acceptance of the possibility of a change, including of the managerial team. I sit on the fence with Jim's ability as a manager. Things need improving overall & a new stadium name which brings extra revenue into the club & more positivity within the club. Without all this it will have a impact on our home attendances which surely is in the best clubs interests to sort out.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Shrimpy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:01 am

BoroRedShrimp wrote:What has happened to the belief we had when we entered the football league & beat PNE & Wolves & took a large following to Sheff Utd with a positive outlook and party spirit?

Peter McGuigan stopped bankrolling the club so we've had to adjust our outlook both in terms of ambition and quality of player we can go out and sign.

Back then we were paying transfer fees for Carl Baker and Drummy and later signing the likes of Craney, Jevons, Mullin on large wages.

You can't compare where the club is now with what it was back then.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby BoroRedShrimp » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:32 am

Shrimpy wrote:
BoroRedShrimp wrote:What has happened to the belief we had when we entered the football league & beat PNE & Wolves & took a large following to Sheff Utd with a positive outlook and party spirit?

Peter McGuigan stopped bankrolling the club so we've had to adjust our outlook both in terms of ambition and quality of player we can go out and sign.

Back then we were paying transfer fees for Carl Baker and Drummy and later signing the likes of Craney, Jevons, Mullin on large wages.

You can't compare where the club is now with what it was back then.


So we just go back to being not as positive because we don't have the same quality. I am not comparing the players but we should have a better attitude than accepting where we are now. What has transfer fees got to do with it especially when we had practically the same squad we got promoted to the football league with apart from Baker & Lewis when we played in the first season. We are who we are but we need to believe in ourselves. Accrington & numerous other smaller clubs have belief and that goes along way to achieving success.

KEEP THE FAITH.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Shrimpy » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:49 am

BoroRedShrimp wrote:So we just go back to being not as positive because we don't have the same quality.

You can be positive, I think we are all positive but it's more about re-adjusting your expectation level than positivity. In other words, we shouldn't be seeing threads 5 games into the season and on Facebook with people beginning to question whether Jim should still be the manager or not! For me, being positive is thinking we could have quite a good season with a comfortable mid table finish but I'd still be delighted with just not getting relegated.

BoroRedShrimp wrote:I am not comparing the players but we should have a better attitude than accepting where we are now.

Why should we? What makes you think we shouldn't just accept where we are now?

BoroRedShrimp wrote:What has transfer fees got to do with it

It's an indicator of where the club was then in terms of resources available to the manager and where we are at now. In general, less money = lower quality of player.

BoroRedShrimp wrote:especially when we had practically the same squad we got promoted to the football league with

The squad that got promoted was also a well funded one and it continued to be well funded for the first 3 / 4 years of us being a League club.

BoroRedShrimp wrote:We are who we are but we need to believe in ourselves. Accrington have & numerous other smaller clubs have and that goes along way to achieving success.

Hereford, Dagenham, Macclesfield, York, Cheltenham, Torquay, Barnet, Aldershot, Darlington all comparable sized clubs to us that have been relegated whilst we've been a League club.

Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Lincoln, Stockport. Grimsby, Luton all bigger clubs than us that have been relegated.

Why compare ourselves to Accrington all the time and moan about any successes they may be having than comparing us to the dozens of other clubs that we manage to do better than despite the odds forever being against us.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby shrimper » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:03 am

..and up to the past couple of seasons our record in the Football League in terms of finishing position has been slightly better than Accy's.

They are now getting funds to buy players and pay decent wages, we're not.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby marky No.1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:12 am

Why doesn't Abdul take a pat on the back for keeping us afloat and call it the Abdul Stadium (or something else of his choice), still puzzles me why he and his family keep their distance.

Some good points above. Most of us have only known the Club grow and go forward, so it is understandable that many are whinging now we where we are.

On 1st August, I would have taken being one point behind big spending Mansfield in September
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby black morse » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:21 am

marky No.1 wrote:Why doesn't Abdul take a pat on the back for keeping us afloat and call it the Abdul Stadium (or something else of his choice), still puzzles me why he and his family keep their distance.

Some good points above. Most of us have only known the Club grow and go forward, so it is understandable that many are whinging now we where we are.

On 1st August, I would have taken being one point behind big spending Mansfield in September


To be honest I'd rather not think too much about that as I'm still worried about it.....and the future.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby shrimper » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:05 am

marky No.1 wrote:Why doesn't Abdul take a pat on the back for keeping us afloat and call it the Abdul Stadium (or something else of his choice), still puzzles me why he and his family keep their distance.

Some good points above. Most of us have only known the Club grow and go forward, so it is understandable that many are whinging now we where we are.

On 1st August, I would have taken being one point behind big spending Mansfield in September


I thought he was doing national service. Isn't it just that this was 'his' pet project so while he's away his only involvement is under-writing the annual debt/costs?
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby marky No.1 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:49 am

shrimper wrote:
I thought he was doing national service. Isn't it just that this was 'his' pet project so while he's away his only involvement is under-writing the annual debt/costs?


Yes I have heard that too, but would love to understand why someone would fork out £2M over a period having relinquished Directorship and not even taken advantage of a free pie or 2 in the process.

Have we got an official Chairman yet? Every ship needs a rudder. If I say it could be Dean Winnard, we will be back on topic
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Gone_Shrimping » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:27 pm

marky No.1 wrote:
shrimper wrote:
I thought he was doing national service. Isn't it just that this was 'his' pet project so while he's away his only involvement is under-writing the annual debt/costs?


Yes I have heard that too, but would love to understand why someone would fork out £2M over a period having relinquished Directorship and not even taken advantage of a free pie or 2 in the process.

Have we got an official Chairman yet? Every ship needs a rudder. If I say it could be Dean Winnard, we will be back on topic


Diego is still officially a director according to Companies House.

I understand from a good source that the Diego situation will be dealt with at the forthcoming AGM.

Maybe once Diego has left the building or at least left the Board , that things will become clearer.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Christies Child » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:28 pm

marky No.1 wrote:
shrimper wrote:
I thought he was doing national service. Isn't it just that this was 'his' pet project so while he's away his only involvement is under-writing the annual debt/costs?


Yes I have heard that too, but would love to understand why someone would fork out £2M over a period having relinquished Directorship and not even taken advantage of a free pie or 2 in the process.

Have we got an official Chairman yet? Every ship needs a rudder. If I say it could be Dean Winnard, we will be back on topic


I could be wrong (again :oops: ) but isn't his involvement due to his faith which states that if a promise is made whatever the circumstances then that promise has to be honoured. As I say I could be wrong but seem to recall reading about this honouring of a promise :?:
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby George Dawes » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:14 pm

I think this is one of the best squads we've had, all things considered, and that's down to Jim.

not a bad start to this season.

my only snag is playing Winnard(who I rate) being played when he's injuried, I praised Jim last week for resting and not taking a gamble on Olivier, however Jim took one with Winnard, when we've a decent size squad to pick from, we could have still played 3 at the back with as follows assuming fit.

Lund
Kenyon
Old
Muller
Levelle

if not then a flat back four and fully fit midfielder, but anyway, let's wipe our mouths, and look to the next game.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby BoroRedShrimp » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:10 am

shrimper wrote:..and up to the past couple of seasons our record in the Football League in terms of finishing position has been slightly better than Accy's.

They are now getting funds to buy players and pay decent wages, we're not.


Accy finished above us last season even when we were in control at one stage in the league table. Actually the last 3 seasons they have finished above us. IMO I don't think that has anything to do with how well Accy is doing at present more down to John Coleman knows how to cherry pick good players & uses them to the best of his ability. His tactics are spot on and thats why they have always done well since they got promoted to the football league with or without tons of money.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby BoroRedShrimp » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:01 am

Shrimpy wrote:
BoroRedShrimp wrote:So we just go back to being not as positive because we don't have the same quality.

You can be positive, I think we are all positive but it's more about re-adjusting your expectation level than positivity. In other words, we shouldn't be seeing threads 5 games into the season and on Facebook with people beginning to question whether Jim should still be the manager or not! For me, being positive is thinking we could have quite a good season with a comfortable mid table finish but I'd still be delighted with just not getting relegated.

BoroRedShrimp wrote:I am not comparing the players but we should have a better attitude than accepting where we are now.

Why should we? What makes you think we shouldn't just accept where we are now?

BoroRedShrimp wrote:What has transfer fees got to do with it


It's an indicator of where the club was then in terms of resources available to the manager and where we are at now. In general, less money = lower quality of player.

BoroRedShrimp wrote:especially when we had practically the same squad we got promoted to the football league with

The squad that got promoted was also a well funded one and it continued to be well funded for the first 3 / 4 years of us being a League club.

BoroRedShrimp wrote:We are who we are but we need to believe in ourselves. Accrington have & numerous other smaller clubs have and that goes along way to achieving success.

Hereford, Dagenham, Macclesfield, York, Cheltenham, Torquay, Barnet, Aldershot, Darlington all comparable sized clubs to us that have been relegated whilst we've been a League club.

Bristol Rovers, Tranmere, Leyton Orient, Lincoln, Stockport. Grimsby, Luton all bigger clubs than us that have been relegated.

Why compare ourselves to Accrington all the time and moan about any successes they may be having than comparing us to the dozens of other clubs that we manage to do better than despite the odds forever being against us.


People have an opinion about Jim like you have an opinion on here now. Like I said I sit on the fence with Jim at present. However we will see how things pan out over this season. Were we finish is very important & don't have a problem if some fans expect to finish low in the table, however it may question why people have stopped attending & our gates are down because of the negativity in posts or on the terraces. It does cause people to stop coming. You are comparing Darlington, Hereford & Stockport I am comparing John Coleman that money does not have to bring success all the time. When did they have a lump of money when they got promoted? They actually neally went out of business but they carried on cherry picking decent players that we actually had at one stage like Craney, so for me money is not always the answer. It comes down to good tactics & getting the correct players to fit into the squad. Accy & Oldham are a couple of examples that football is not based on money on how well you do. In the late 90's Oldham cherry picked talent that at one stage got them to the old league one which is now the premiership. They brought through academy players and sold them on. I am not moaning about Accy but looking at the bigger picture & showing an example that it can be achieved no matter how big or small you are.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Seasider9601 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:11 am

BoroRedShrimp wrote:they carried on cherry picking decent players that we actually had at one stage like Craney.


Not strictly true as Craney played for Accrington before he joined ourselves.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby BoroRedShrimp » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:26 am

Seasider9601 wrote:
BoroRedShrimp wrote:they carried on cherry picking decent players that we actually had at one stage like Craney.


Accrington had him on two occasion then we signed him on loan then later he moved back to Accrington again 2010/12 season.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Seasider9601 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:35 am

BoroRedShrimp wrote:
Seasider9601 wrote:
BoroRedShrimp wrote:they carried on cherry picking decent players that we actually had at one stage like Craney.


Accrington had him on two occasion then we signed him on loan then later he moved back to Accrington again 2010/12 season.


Fair enough. :geek: :lol:
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Shrimpy » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:18 am

As with all the Accrington players we get though he was brilliant for them and was a shadow of his former self in a Morecambe shirt.

I can only think of Paul Mullin who actually did well for us having previously played for Accrington.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Seasider9601 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:29 am

Shrimpy wrote:I can only think of Paul Mullin who actually did well for us having previously played for Accrington.


And another Paul, Burns. #Legend
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby shrimper » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:43 am

BoroRedShrimp wrote:
shrimper wrote:..and up to the past couple of seasons our record in the Football League in terms of finishing position has been slightly better than Accy's.

They are now getting funds to buy players and pay decent wages, we're not.


Accy finished above us last season even when we were in control at one stage in the league table. Actually the last 3 seasons they have finished above us. IMO I don't think that has anything to do with how well Accy is doing at present more down to John Coleman knows how to cherry pick good players & uses them to the best of his ability. His tactics are spot on and thats why they have always done well since they got promoted to the football league with or without tons of money.


And, despite Coleman's spot on tactics, before that we finished above them more often than not - including a couple of seasons with Jim as manager. What has happened with our club over the past three seasons? We've had continually reduced funding, whereas they have had an influx of investment.

So... we've done as well as them in the league, except when the budgets have been massively different.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby BoroRedShrimp » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:05 am

We tend to call our budget as for the downfall we are in at present but it didn't stop us beating Exeter at wembley in front of probably a far more expensive Exeter side on paper & a bigger supported turnout by them. That should always be an example that no matter how small a club you are you can achieve higher.
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby shrimper » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:09 am

Agreed.

And we've done really well doing that season after season, I'm leaving it there.

:D
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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby BoroRedShrimp » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:48 am

shrimper wrote:Agreed.

And we've done really well doing that season after season, I'm leaving it there.

:D


I agree Glenn. I think Jim has got a task on his hands and I wouldn't like to be in his shoes working on a shoe string. We just have to be hopeful we get some interested parties for the club. It is also a worry we have the same stadium name from the firm that went bust. Hopefully onwards & upwards.

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Re: Winnard - is he serious?

Postby Christies Child » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:26 pm

Let's hope that the new Commercial Manager can work wonders and increase our commerciall revenue especially the re naming of our great stadium.

With the new road link to Heysham Port likely to increase freight I wonder if we could interest some of the shipping companies based there.

:?: :?: :?:
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